GTR/RB26 Intercoolers

[Allan74]

Is there a general 'Rule of thumb' for capacity/cooling ability when it comes to the average JDM Intercooler for RB26/GTRs ?

For this comparison, I am refering only to Tube & Fin designs, in both OEM and AFTERMARKET Upgrades/Replacements for GTR ONLY.

Nearly all GTR IC's seem to share 2 common dimensions, in Core LENGTH and HEIGHT (600-610mm x 300mm).

They all differ mostly in WIDTH, beginning with the 76mm STOCK Core, up to over 127mm (5") for some larger replacements.
The 76mm thick OEM Core is said to be able to satisfy the cooling needs of a 600PS RB26 Application.

Sizes that I have seen advertised are: 76mm (OEM Size), 80mm, 90mm, 100mm, 125mm etc.

100mm (approx.4") seems to be a very common upgrade size, so what PS or HP rating would such a cooler be given on the average ?

This ofcourse is dependant on the fact this this 'cooler' is of JDM quality (HKS, ARC, Trust etc.), a Tube & Fin design.... and not a cheeper Chinese core.

Thoughts ?
Allan.

[Skym]

It's not based on hp, it's based on matching CFM from engine, turbo, pressure drop of intercooler core at desired boost level, etc.

Unfortunately most intercooler manufacturers don't publicly share this info.

Only intercooler I would trust is one that's designed for your engine, turbo's, etc to maximise performance.

This is ARE who are a intercooler manufacturer in Australia and they can explain the differences between stock, aftermarket intercoolers cores, explain pressure drop, flow, etc better than I can -

http://www.are.com.au/techtalk/intecoolersMR.htm

They flow test their intercooler cores, end tank design's, etc, so I would trust them to make good intercooler for application.

Also they have Chinese made intercooler flow figures vs flow figures for their intercoolers, etc so you can see the difference.

[mcfly]

hp is merely one way of measuring cfm though and perfectly usable for our needs.

1lb/min of air typically gives you 10-12hp
very roughly at satp 1.6 hp per cfm
This is actually quite accurate for our uses. Typical gtr at 1 bar of boost = 44lb/min
I don't do turbo compressor map plotting but I bet you would find me pretty damn close.


Summing intercooler design up in a very brief statement would be the following.
ebay bar and plate cores weigh a lot. the expensive arc tube and fin will weigh much less then the ebay's equivalent flow.

[Allan74]

This is the front-runnner in my search so far.....

HKS R Type, 600mm x 300.5xx x 103mm, $1200 USD + Shipping.

http://www.rhdjapan.com/hks-type-r-intercooler-bnr32-bcnr33-bnr34-standard-size-29465

The is the cheapest and best sized (for me) JDM Intercooler I can find. Blitz also has one available for similar money, but a bit smaller, so I will stick to the HKS R Type unless something else comes along.

Anyone know of a DECENT Tube & Fin option UNDER $1,000 USD ?

[Kras]

I'm in the same boat as you Allan, it's hard to find a decent intercooler without the JDM tax

[Allan74]

I will say something though.....I am impressed with Autobahn88 and their latest 'products', 1 in particular being the new Tube & Fin Intercooler for RB26/BNR32.

http://www.performance-wise.net/USERIMAGES/CARP05%20%20GTR%20IC.JPG

Tube & Fin, 610mm x 300mm x 100mm, $450 AUD including shipping from Performance-Wise.
http://www.performance-wise.net/page6.htm

I honestly can't think of a good enough reason NOT to try this one out. As I said, I think Autobahn88 have really stepped it up a bit, in terms of quality and there can't be THAT many tube & fin core manufacturers in the eastern part of the world for everyone to choose from, so this core must be used by atleast 1 of the JDM brands already.

I only know of 1 person using this IC (Doug Taylor), so I will ask him to chime in if he sees this, or I will simply invite him to the thread.

I think for the price, the design (T&F) and it's size, it's worth checking out.

[Kras]

I bought an Autobahn 88 test pipe and for what it is, it is really nice...

were you the one who bought their suction kit?

[Allan74]

.....Autobahn 88.....
were you the one who bought their suction kit?
I did, but I never used it because I sold all of my Twin Turbo stuff as a package when I decided to go Big Single........now I have come around full circle back to twins again......FOR GOOD this time (hopefully....lol) and got a smokin deal on a Greddy Kit, so that's what I ended up with now.

[Rapier46]

i heard the autobahn 88 suction kit doesnt fit worth shit.


but then again neither does greddy.

[Zacho]

My experience with Autobahn88 has been good.

Would I be wrong in saying, with an intercooler one should look at the combination of design and cost, rather than a particular brand? I.E. Are you REALLY getting much for spending $1000 on an ARC vs. 500 ish on this A88 tube and fin?

[Allan74]

Like I was saying to Mcfly..... how many Tube & Fin 'cheappie' Intercoolers do you know of on the market right now ? I don't know of any, as they are all Bar & Plate for the run-of-the-mill el-cheapo IC......which leads me to believe that this core just might be used by atleast 1 other JDM namebrand if not more, because of it's SPECIFIC SIZING for a GTR and the fact that I can't see any cheap/knockoff/crap Tube & Fin factories out there......

Does that make sense ?

I honestly think I am going to take a chance on this one.

[archaeic_bloke]

yo ..quick question,

can someone post a pic or explain the difference between tube n fin and bar n plate...

i mean, obviously i know what the words mean but cant picture it.

why is one better than the other?

[M13]

I have an autobahn88 3" IC core.

flows enough to let me little 2L make almost 400crank HP.


It flows decently I guess?

[M13]

yo ..quick question,

can someone post a pic or explain the difference between tube n fin and bar n plate...

i mean, obviously i know what the words mean but cant picture it.

why is one better than the other?

skym posted this link.

It's a great read.

http://www.are.com.au/techtalk/intecoolersMR.htm

[mcfly]

yo ..quick question,

can someone post a pic or explain the difference between tube n fin and bar n plate...

i mean, obviously i know what the words mean but cant picture it.

why is one better than the other?

skym posted a good link. A lot of tech in regards to intercoolers
http://www.are.com.au/techtalk/intecoolersMR.htm

[archaeic_bloke]

ya head a read through... still un clear! whats better, tube and fin or bar and plate?

[Allan74]

Comparing Tube & fin to Bar & Plate (in my mind) can best be compared to the cooling properties of aluminium and copper in a heat-sink type of application......(this will be quick, I promise).

Like Aluminium, Tube & Fin can make make quick, large scale temperature changes, but when it get's heat soak - it's done and there's no coming back. It is a lighter design, weight-wise.

Like Copper, Bar & Plate opperates in a much narrower (but hotter) temperature scale and although the high and low peaks are not present performance-wise, it is able to better fight off heat soak partly because of it's less extreme temperature changes. It sacrifices peak performance for overall maintained averages. It's density causes it to be heavy.

Although both are in fact aluminium.....Make sense ?

[DrMango]

From that I would assume Tube and fin is more for street cars and Bar and plate would be for a race setup?
Thats the best way Ive been able to understand the differences

Kyle

[mcfly]

bar and plate typically flows more. Ideally you want to just run methanol for fuel and then you don't need an intercooler.

[GTR--J]

i heard the autobahn 88 suction kit doesnt fit worth shit.


but then again neither does greddy.


I took a gamble and thought how bad could it be....I posted a thread on GTRC.

Anyways back to intercoolers, I picked up a used 105mm ARC for $550 +shipping from yahoo.jp and it weighs 18 lbs. It is the M105 or 103

http://www.greenline.jp/catalogue/cooling/pages/arcintercooler.php

They pop up once in a while and that's good price.

[DougTaylor]

Yes you are right, this is the one that I am running I believe. I can't really add a lot, the price was good for what I wanted at the time but what I will tell you is that RCTS (Reg) isn't very happy with it as the intake temps are quite high and it heat soaked quickly in the summer. He did say that an HKS would be significantly better - although of course he favors HKS and for the cost it should be. I have the CAMP2 monitoring intake temp so I can provide data, but not until it warms up in the spring. That's all I know..

Doug

I will say something though.....I am impressed with Autobahn88 and their latest 'products', 1 in particular being the new Tube & Fin Intercooler for RB26/BNR32.

Tube & Fin, 610mm x 300mm x 100mm, $450 AUD including shipping from Performance-Wise.
http://www.performance-wise.net/page6.htm

I honestly can't think of a good enough reason NOT to try this one out. As I said, I think Autobahn88 have really stepped it up a bit, in terms of quality and there can't be THAT many tube & fin core manufacturers in the eastern part of the world for everyone to choose from, so this core must be used by atleast 1 of the JDM brands already.

I only know of 1 person using this IC (Doug Taylor), so I will ask him to chime in if he sees this, or I will simply invite him to the thread.

I think for the price, the design (T&F) and it's size, it's worth checking out.

[Allan74]

Wow Doug, I really wasn't expecting that......

I thought FOR SURE this would turn out to be a Gem in disguise because of the fact that, it's atleast a Tube & Fin Intercooler.

I do wonder how this would have compared to an OEM Unit though, as you said, Reg is pretty PRO-HKS, so I wonder if it was the fact that it was an Autobahn88 IC that turned him off ? and it NOT being an HKS ? Or if really was a sub-standard performer, even compred to an OEM Intercooler.

Thanks for that info though. Nice to know a little more about this thing.
Allan

[Kras]

thats too bad,

[mcfly]

Did he tell you what your intake temps were and the conditions they were seen at?

[M13]

I have the 600X300X100 and in summer on hot days, right after driving, the intercooler and the plenum was quite cold to the touch while the charge side was warm/hot.



I'm talking low humidity sub 30's days.

[Allan74]

I wonder how my 4.75" thick XS Power Bar & Plate Intercooler would compare to the 4" Autobahn88 Tube & Fin then.......

HHmmm......

The intercooler in my car right now (Trust 3.5") is in such bad shape, with nearly EVERY fin bent over and the front of it a near SOLID plate, that in my haste I picked up that XS Power monster to throw in, but decided to hold off because I am lazy and never got around to it.

In the mean time, quite a while ago now actually.....I found YET ANOTHER Intercooler that I bought (another 'just in case' unit) that is OEM sized (GTR end tanks as well.....so OEM fitment), but is also Bar & Plate, that I considered using, as the price was right and I couldn't pass it up since my Trust IC was now an even MORE SOLID front with basically NO AIR FLOW through it. I figured, as a temporary solution, it would work out well. The fact that it's OEM sized was a bonus too, so that I wouldn't have to modify anything to mount it. As with everything, I never mounted it and it's still off the car.....lol

Now with my collection of cheap-ish Intercoolers (well, only 2, but still....lol), I would like to know if there was a way to test their efficiency OFF THE CAR, rather than installing each of them to test Intake Temps at the Dyno.

What can I do ?

[RWDragoon]

ARC's intercoolers have a interesting design and I would like to know how well they truly work. I am direct with ARC out of the USA and I have to admit prices are absolutely ridiculous. I would probably buy used myself! Or even import from Japan.

The article that was posted was excellent, but I assume the denso core would be the same as the ARC core

Here are some pictures of the ARC core we took at SEMA

http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/uu94/VexPerformance/ARC%20Japan/th_ARCFinsCloseup.jpg (http://s637.photobucket.com/albums/uu94/VexPerformance/ARC%20Japan/?action=view&current=ARCFinsCloseup.jpg)

http://i637.photobucket.com/albums/uu94/VexPerformance/ARC%20Japan/th_ARCFrontmount.jpg (http://s637.photobucket.com/albums/uu94/VexPerformance/ARC%20Japan/?action=view&current=ARCFrontmount.jpg)

[Terrh]

How much power are you planning on making anyhow?

The OEM intercooler seems pretty damn good to me. I bet alot of the cheaper aftermarket designs don't outperform it.