Liberty Sequential Gearbox for GTR

[mcfly]

Take note that this Transmission does not come with the transfer case but it does come with the adapter for it.

http://www.libertysgears.com/skyline%20cut%20out%20resized.jpg

Pro Stock Z Style 5-Speed Transmission - $8640.00
Unlimted Ratio Options

• Magnesium Case
• Magnesium Tailhousing (Bushing or Roller Bearing)
• 30 or 32-Spline Output Shaft
• 300M Input Shaft
• 5-Lug Engagement (All Gears)
• High Gear Removable Face Plate
• Higher Efficiency Gear Profiles
• Exclusively V.A.R. Material Gears
• Pistol Grip Manual Liberty Shifter Air Shifter $780.00
• Metal Enhancement Processing Shot Peen, Cryogenic Processing & Surface Enhancement

Rated to Approximately 1500 Horsepower at 2500 Pounds


EXTREME Transmissions

EXTREME Transmissions are Limted to the EXTREME Gear Ratio Chart

3-Speed (Comes with one extra gear set) - $8140.00
4-Speed - $8140.00
5-Speed - $8640.00

• Magnesium Case
• Magnesium Tailhousing (Bushing or Roller Bearing)
• 32-Spline 300M Output Shaft
• 300M Input Shaft
• Exclusively V.A.R. Material Gears
• Pistol Grip Manual Liberty Shifter Air Shifter $780.00
• Metal Enhancement Processing Shot Peen, Cryogenic Processing & Surface Enhancement

Rated to Approximately 3000 Horsepower at 3600 Pounds

ANY NEW EXTREME TRANSMISSION IS AVAILABLE SET UP FOR USE WITH A BRUNO TORQUE CONVERTER DRIVE UNIT AT NO EXTRA CHARGE



EQUALIZER SHIFTER OPTIONS

Option #1 - LIBERTY'S MANUAL V-GATE STYLE SHIFTER
Standard on new transmissions, as pictured above.


Option #2 - AIR SHIFTER (PUSH BUTTON SHIFT)
$780.00 when ordered as an option on a new transmission
$1850.00 when sold individually
http://www.libertysgears.com/Airshifterresized.jpg

Option #3 - PISTOL GRIP PNEUMATIC SHIFTER
$780.00 when ordered as an option on a new transmission
$1850.00 when sold individually
http://www.libertysgears.com/cutout.jpg


Perfect for those high horsepower gtr's.

[Bignate]

do they offer any gated boxes for the rb26? price seems quite reasonable all things considered.

[DrMango]

That looks like something that would be on the space shuttle. Looks beefy. Is it the new crazy option for the serious GTRs out there, or is it just another 8 thousand dollar tranny?

Kyle

[mcfly]

Marc Jacobson and glen suckling are both using this trans in their bnr32.

so 7 second capable reliably

[DrMango]

but is it better then the "other" options because its newer?

Kyle

[Skym]

Interesting.

As far as I know Heat Treatments run the same transmission.

I thought Glen still had the Hollinger gearbox?? At least last time I saw specs on Glen's car, it did have a Hollinger gearbox.

[mcfly]

You could be right, my source on glens car was dodgy to say the least and that would explain the hesitant shifts on his 7 second run.

[Skym]

Sometimes hard to find correct info on cars.

For info, look at this NZ magazine in link below, as they sometimes have articles on Glen's R32GTR dragcar. Turbo setup is shown and hollinger gearbox is mentioned in the online version of NZ magazine -

http://www.performancecar.co.nz/the-best/jdm-cars/performance-car-of-the-year-2009/nominee-9-glenn-suckling

The spec list comes from the owner of car, so is fairly accurate.

Also it was said in article on his car in magazine (see link below), that he was going to do some suspension changes (still looks like he is using factory suspension arms from photo's in NZ magazine of rearend). The drag slicks + Bogart? rims makes his car sit at what looks like near to factory ride height when looking at photo of rearend. But looks lowered from the side.

Here's the issue they talk about, show photo's of Glen's R32GTR dragcar -

http://www.performancecar.co.nz/news/5900/150th-issue-of-nz-performance-car-magazine-out-now

Heat Treatments mention they run a Liberty gearbox on their website -

http://www.htlracing.co.nz/thecars.htm

[rb-racer]

must be nice having such relaxed drag chassis requirements. I wish I could shove a dry sump tank in my interior. Wiggins clamp on the throttle body is a nice touch.

[Skym]

It's a interesting car.

You can drive dragcars, custom built replica cars, kit cars on NZ road's that probably wouldn't be allowed on the road in some country's.

All car needs is a cert to make sure it meets certain requirements -

http://www.lvvta.org.nz/

[rb-racer]

It's a interesting car.

You can drive dragcars, custom built replica cars, kit cars on NZ road's that probably wouldn't be allowed on the road in some country's.

All car needs is a cert to make sure it meets certain requirements -

http://www.lvvta.org.nz/

I was talking about the actual drag racing requirements. Like in Canada or the usa we could never drag with a oil container sitting in the passenger footwell. What happens if it had a freak explosion for some odd reason.

[Skym]

I know you were. I was trying to say road legal requirements in NZ seem to be similar, where some things that wouldn't be allowed in some country's for cars used on the road are allowed to happen in NZ.

[Zacho]

I think Mcfly only posted this in hopes someone will buy it, then he can steal the adapter plate and take it to a machine shop to get cloned :D

[mcfly]

yes that would be nice. Allan i think you require a transmission ;)

my emails always bounce after one reply. stupid AOL. I think liberty ignores them once i ask if i can purchase an adapter. They deff told me they dont deal with automatics.

[Allan74]

I would pretty much give away a spare organ to get a setup like this.

[TougeJunkie]

The Liberty is pretty slick, I was looking at them a while ago, not that I could afford or need one but it would be wicked for any one whos into dragracing. I bet you could put down some pretty quick times with the airshift system

[mcfly]

this would be a fun box. just bang through gears :p

[TougeJunkie]

I was thinking of one of these for my future RWD th400 set up
http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Store_Code=TC&Screen=PROD&Product_Code=301442

[DrMango]

I would pretty much give away a spare organ to get a setup like this.

Which organ would you consider a spare? I know some people ;)

Kyle

[mcfly]

I was thinking of one of these for my future RWD th400 set up
http://www.compperformancegroupstores.com/store/merchant.mvc?Store_Code=TC&Screen=PROD&Product_Code=301442

any built th400 will have the automatic part removed and even then it was a mechanical shift. So you have to manually shift the box. Neat idea but you would need a minimum of a 4l80E or something electronic.

[Terrh]

I've dealt with liberty (they're local to me) and I've been unimpressed by their customer service.

Expect to get lots of promises and then once they have your stuff (or your money) the runaround for months.

I'm STILL waiting on a T56 to be rebuilt that I brought there in august.

[TougeJunkie]

Ahh your right Mcfly, guess I will have to start looking into "MN8" 4L85-E, seems pretty stong and availible, since its a never version of the TH400 I hope the bell housing adapters are still the same

any built th400 will have the automatic part removed and even then it was a mechanical shift. So you have to manually shift the box. Neat idea but you would need a minimum of a 4l80E or something electronic.

[Stefan_001]

I was considering buying a liberty but its sucks that you can't down shift the gears one by one. pull the lever and your back at N. Auto's are good but I love ringing gears. If I was building a full race car then I would use the clutchless 5 speed hands down the only down fall is customer service.

[mcfly]

oh well look at that. Guess you learn something everyday. Certainly not street friendly.

drag only for that box, too bad as it looked promising. They do have terrible customer service.

[mcfly]

So can we confirm this. The liberty sequential will not let you downshift one gear at a time?

[Stefan_001]

The clutchless 5 speed can only be reset to neutral. Example. Light goes green pop the clutch realse the button on the shifter,1,2,3,4,5,let off the gas, release the chute squeeze the neutral lever and shut down. Look up the quaife gearbox. I don't know the max power it can handle but I hear it's good.

[Terrh]

I've dealt with liberty (they're local to me) and I've been unimpressed by their customer service.

Expect to get lots of promises and then once they have your stuff (or your money) the runaround for months.

I'm STILL waiting on a T56 to be rebuilt that I brought there in august.

STILL waiting. we're at 9 months now.

[Stefan_001]

your better off going there in person

[Terrh]

been there 5 times now.

[Stefan_001]

Refund time.

[mcfly]

Well Brandon from Liberty confirmed for me. No downshifting.

I had to double check.

I am afraid a loose converter will make my gtr slow with the th400.

[Stefan_001]

You need to go full rwd. I hate to say it but it's true. It's the most cost affective. If you go rwd the th400 is great but the problem is it take more power.

[mcfly]

why would rwd have anything to do with it?

[Stefan_001]

it just sounded like you gave up on the 4wd Th400 setup and don't want to spend 15+k on a sequential straight cut dogbox. I'm not going to lie but I have a brand new RWD 6 speed that can handle 1300+whp sitting in my garage that might go in my car.

[GT-R Glenn]

Ive often wondered if the liberties cant down shift because of the way the gearshift works.
Would it not be possible to make a drum type selector and make it full sequential both up and down the gears ?
81/2 k US doesnt sound too bad to me.

[mcfly]

it just sounded like you gave up on the 4wd Th400 setup and don't want to spend 15+k on a sequential straight cut dogbox. I'm not going to lie but I have a brand new RWD 6 speed that can handle 1300+whp sitting in my garage that might go in my car.

Every Japanese box (or ones that drop in) seem to break shit all the time.

I have not given up the th400 4wd due to the 4wd. I am questioning it for putting the power I want to the ground. It seems the looser the converter the lower the power. But unfortunately the rb26 has to rev to the moon to make the power I want.

[Crazy 88]

You should do a 200r4, they can handle at least 1000hp when built right and won't waste nearly as much HP as a TH400. The lower weight and the overdrive is just a bonus.




Jon.

[collector240sx]

Hum, so is it the shifter that's stopping this trans. from being downshifted, or is it the trans. it self ? If it's just the shifter, I would imagine since the pattern is already there, someone could figure a way to reverse the action of the ratchet.

But if we take the air shifter option for example, could someone just setup 1 button for up shifting (normal) and have a button that would cycle trough the gear minus the gear in use, effectively acting has if you had down shifted ? (would have to keep the clutch press it while this would happen)

This would greatly depend on the time it would take to cycle trough all of the gears.

mcfly any idea how fast one of these trans. could cycle trough all it's gears ? (not manually of course, probably depends on how fast the solenoids responds and how much time would be needed between engagement)

The only thing that worries me is, in the info on the first page, there's nothing about these trans having any reverse.

[Terrh]

I refuse to believe that there isn't a 5/6 speed AWD or at least 4x4 trans that will stand up to the power.

I still think about making a T56 work. I think they would live a long time behind a (in comparison) torqueless RB26. A local friend of mine has a street camaro that's now in the 8's running a built t56 and once he got all the issues sorted I think the trans has been very reliable. It can't be that hard to get an adapter plate and clutch setup working and then figure out a way to bolt the tcase on the rear. And it's gotta cost less than $15k.

[Stefan_001]

The liberty has reverse... And it's not the shifter that doesn't allow it to downshift one by one it's the gearbox. The airshift is insanely fast. I know a guy that has a 3 speed lenco that's airshift and his car will be going low 6's and still be good to go high 5's. This gearbox is for serious racers. Not people who want to cruise by timmies. Liberty has a 5 speed straight cut dogbox but they currently don't have a t-case adapter and bell housing for gtr's. Also 1:1 is 4th and 5th.

[mcfly]

I refuse to believe that there isn't a 5/6 speed AWD or at least 4x4 trans that will stand up to the power.

I still think about making a T56 work. I think they would live a long time behind a (in comparison) torqueless RB26. A local friend of mine has a street camaro that's now in the 8's running a built t56 and once he got all the issues sorted I think the trans has been very reliable. It can't be that hard to get an adapter plate and clutch setup working and then figure out a way to bolt the tcase on the rear. And it's gotta cost less than $15k.

I agree, a built t56 should in theory work. But think about the V160. Supras make 1000 wheel on those, strap a transfer case on the back of it and gtr's blow them up at 600. I'm pretty certain the transfer case is killer to a gear box.

[Stefan_001]

The r34 getrag is a v160. The gears rarely sheer on a supra/skyline v160. It's the damn 2nd and 3rd fear syncro. I think the most power made on a stock r34 box was almost 800 awhp. There's a guy who is slowly building a t56 with the r33 t-case. It took him like 6 month to make an adapter and he said it'll take another year to make a shaft that will combine both. This was about a year or 2 ago. I don't know if the guy completed the setup.

Mcfly:

have you looked at the th400/208 tcase setup before?

[collector240sx]

Thanks stefan_001, that's what I wanted to know.

By the way check Kismo it's a guy with a R34 that is doing around 824hp at the wheel, if my memory serve me correct. His Getrag trans lasted him about 2 years, he did use it do. Well if you check the vids and his site you can get a lot of info on the car.

In order to put it in reverse, I would imagine you would have to get it in neutral, and then engage it. Does any one have any idea how they usually set this up with the air shift, is just on a separate solenoid. So have one switch to go up every gear then fall in neutral, and an other to engage the reverse.

Because if this is the case, couldn't someone build a lever to act like a sequential, pull it and it up shift, and push it and it would cycle trough all of the gear less the one you where in, essentially acting has a regular downshift. And then have a slot on the right so if you slide the shifter toward your self it would it would cycle trough all the remanding gears and stop on neutral and then you could bring it down and it would make it go into reverse. The positions for the shifter would look like h .

You would only need 4 switch, 2 of witch should already come standard. So someone would have to figure a way to have one switch cycle the solenoid through all the gear less the last one, and an other to cycle all the gears till neutral. It should be possible.

15k for the PPG is really killing me, the getrag at 5k is not bad but not worth it if I have to change it every 2-3 years. A sequential for this price that is capable of this much power, hell I'd been willing to make a couple a mods and live with the idea that it would take a little longer to downshift, has long has it's not ridiculously long. I know the solenoid where not really meant for such an application and I'm wondering if they could take stress (heat) a modification like this could impose on them.

Any thought ?

[Stefan_001]

Kismo is a few years old lol. The airshift clutchless liberty needs to be in neutral and like you said you have to hit a different solenoid to change gear. The liberty isn't just a 9 thousand dollar tranny that bolts up. The firewall and tunnel need to be modified and that means your losing your central console. You need a slipper clutch which is 5 grand and thats a reasonable price lol. The bell housing is another $3500 plus your driveshaft and you can't forget the crossmember if you cant fab something up. You need to make a midplate aswell that will be mounted to the engine/firewall/gearbox(about a half an inch). The PPG is about 8-9 Grand. Theres a company that has made an aftermarket sequential lever upgrade for skylines for the stock gearboxes. The best bang for your buck is the R34 getrag if you don't plan on making more then 800. Its funny that everyone wants to spend 5+k on a gearbox but people in trinidad still using stock boxes.

Aaron's New GTR. I don't have any vids of him running but he's still the fastest in TNT and Gredneda
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qg9BvLqOwls

[GT-R Glenn]

Jatco ?

[mcfly]

Theres a company that has made an aftermarket sequential lever upgrade for skylines for the stock gearboxes.



Everything you have said just became null and void with this statement. The ikeya formula sequential shifter is a piece of shit.

[Terrh]

the stock R32/R33 boxes are junk. I broke two on stock turbos (3rd gear stripped on one and started getting really noisy on the other). and I never even powershifted the damn thing.

I only plan on making maybe 800hp at the most but I don't want to be pulling it apart every two weeks because of broken shit.

I see the two cheapest options as being the OSG dropin gearset w/ R33 case, and probably the next cheapest is the R34 gearbox but you have to change diffs and driveshifts too, and I don't even know what tcase you'd use. Whatever I do, syncros are a must.

spending $15k on a trans is insane to me, if it came down to that I'd rather make less power.

[collector240sx]

stefan_001 I'm sure anyone looking at a trans like this understand it's not a
plug and play solution. I figured the clutch would be expensive, but 5k
thats a pretty penny. I also thought about the adapter, didn't think they
would charge that much for it, hell I'm sure someone could make it work
for a little bit less then 3.5k.

I would never even consider using that sequential adapter, I just don't
trust it. (I guess mcfly think the same way)

PPG for 8-9 k, I haven't check there price in a while, is the Australian
dollars worth less now or did the price go down, I was sure they where
more than that. Are you talking about the straight cut gear or the helical
gear, and with or without the solid billet main shaft.

Damn it, the more I think about it, the more I just want to trow the engine
I'm building in the 240sx, even the stock rb25det trans is suppose to
be good for 1k hp. Even if I destroy it, I can get an other for 500-900$.
Than I could just build the spare engine for 650-750 hp, maybe get a
getrag, and not have to worry so much about breaking trans in the GTR.

[GT-R Glenn]

I broke two on stock turbos OMG Rough ...

COUGH **

Its the pedal on the left...

[Terrh]

I used that pedal every time. 3rd gear is just glass. north of 400hp they break if you drive them hard.

[GT-R Glenn]

Yep, they do if you are rough.
Ive seen 700hp at the wheels on a standard R32 box and it never broke.
My own car put 480hp to the ground for years, did a drag racing series , every tarmac car club event for several years, never broke the gearbox.
It now runs an os box and has 560 hp at the wheels, I changed the gearbox for the ratio's.
A mates R33 make 905 hp at the engine thats near as dam it to 750 hp at the wheels, runs a standard late model R33 box, did superlap last year, has never broken it.
Admittedly he doenst run slicks, only dot targa type tires.
His sons R32 makes 540 kws (740hp)at the wheels, runs a standard late model R33 box
RIPS ran 10.2 in a full weight R32 with a standard gearbox.
Yoda has run low 10's with a standard R32 box
Ive never known or even heard of a standard turb'd r32 having enough power to break 3rd gear.


Back on subject tho, the jatco would have to worth considering for a drag racing app after seeing Superjet run 8.9 with a full weight car.
And they are cheap.
Its just that they are an auto (spits on floor)

[Terrh]

Most stock turbo R32's aren't going mid 11's or getting drag raced every weekend either, but mine was. if I ever let the clutch out too fast in 3rd it broke 'em.

anyways yeah lets get back on topic. R32 stock boxes don't work for me. I am sure my car is going to need something better in the future...

So what's a better route to go? R34 box (possibly with some upgrades inside?) or OSG gearset?

Will the R34 gearbox bolt to an R32/R33 tcase? How's the hwy cruising RPM in 6th with the 4.10 R32 diffs?

[GT-R Glenn]

10.2 with nos and an RB30 on a standard box , often ...

Anyway...

I have posted this on the pommy forums before.

Theres very little difference between the two gearboxes as far as ratio's go, after you forget 1st gear in the 6 speed.

This is the os type a vs the 6 speed getrag / on 255/40/17's with a 4.11 final ratio
All things equal.


OS BOX


Gear Km/h per 1000 RPM Km/h @9000 RPM Km/h @9000 RPM
--------------------------------------------------------
1 10.43 94 94
2 16.51 149 149
3 22.81 205 205
4 28.06 253 253
5 34.22 308 308

Km/h RPM (in Gears)
-------------------------------------------------
1 2 3 4 5
-------------------------------------------------
10 959 606 438 356 292
20 1917 1212 877 713 584
30 2876 1818 1315 1069 877
40 3835 2423 1753 1426 1169
50 4794 3029 2192 1782 1461
60 5752 3635 2630 2138 1753
70 6711 4241 3069 2495 2046
80 7670 4847 3507 2851 2338
90 8628 5453 3945 3208 2630
100 6059 4384 3564 2922
110 6665 4822 3920 3215
120 7270 5260 4277 3507
130 7876 5699 4633 3799
140 8482 6137 4990 4091
150 6575 5346 4384
160 7014 5702 4676
170 7452 6059 4968
180 7891 6415 5260
190 8329 6771 5553
200 8767 7128 5845
210 7484 6137
220 7841 6429
230 8197 6722
240 8553 7014
250 8910 7306
260 7598
270 7891
280 8183
290 8475
300 8767

Gear Change RPM drop (change @9000) RPM drop (change @9000)
-------------------------------------------------------------
1 -> 2 -3312 (to 5688) -3312 (to 5688)
2 -> 3 -2488 (to 6512) -2488 (to 6512)
3 -> 4 -1683 (to 7317) -1683 (to 7317)
4 -> 5 -1620 (to 7380) -1620 (to 7380)


6 Speed Getrag

Gear Km/h per 1000 RPM Km/h @9000 RPM Km/h @9000 RPM
--------------------------------------------------------
1 7.35 66 66
2 11.89 107 107
3 16.70 150 150
4 21.58 194 194
5 28.06 253 253
6 35.38 318 318

Km/h RPM (in Gears)
----------------------------------------------------------
1 2 3 4 5 6
----------------------------------------------------------
10 1361 841 599 463 356 283
20 2723 1682 1197 927 713 565
30 4084 2523 1796 1390 1069 848
40 5446 3364 2395 1853 1426 1130
50 6807 4205 2994 2317 1782 1413
60 8169 5047 3592 2780 2138 1696
70 5888 4191 3243 2495 1978
80 6729 4790 3707 2851 2261
90 7570 5389 4170 3208 2544
100 8411 5987 4633 3564 2826
110 6586 5096 3920 3109
120 7185 5560 4277 3391
130 7784 6023 4633 3674
140 8382 6486 4990 3957
150 8981 6950 5346 4239
160 7413 5702 4522
170 7876 6059 4805
180 8340 6415 5087
190 8803 6771 5370
200 7128 5652
210 7484 5935
220 7841 6218
230 8197 6500
240 8553 6783
250 8910 7066
260 7348
270 7631
280 7913
290 8196
300 8479
310 8761

Gear Change RPM drop (change @9000) RPM drop (change @9000)
-------------------------------------------------------------
1 -> 2 -3440 (to 5560) -3440 (to 5560)
2 -> 3 -2593 (to 6407) -2593 (to 6407)
3 -> 4 -2036 (to 6964) -2036 (to 6964)
4 -> 5 -2077 (to 6923) -2077 (to 6923)
5 -> 6 -1863 (to 7137) -1863 (to 7137)



//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////


And here side by side ....

OS

Gear Km/h per 1000 RPM Km/h @9000 RPM Km/h @9000 RPM
--------------------------------------------------------
1 10.43 94 94
2 16.51 149 149
3 22.81 205 205
4 28.06 253 253
5 34.22 308 308

Getrag
Gear Km/h per 1000 RPM Km/h @9000 RPM Km/h @9000 RPM
--------------------------------------------------------
1 7.35 66 66
2 11.89 107 107
3 16.70 150 150
4 21.58 194 194
5 28.06 253 253
6 35.38 318 318



The exact same thing with a 4.375 Ratio
Getrag + 4.375 ratio



Gear Km/h per 1000 RPM Km/h @9000 RPM Km/h @9000 RPM
--------------------------------------------------------
1 6.90 62 62
2 11.17 101 101
3 15.69 141 141
4 20.28 182 182
5 26.36 237 237
6 33.24 299 299

Km/h RPM (in Gears)
----------------------------------------------------------
1 2 3 4 5 6
----------------------------------------------------------
10 1449 895 637 493 379 301
20 2898 1791 1275 986 759 602
30 4348 2686 1912 1480 1138 903
40 5797 3581 2549 1973 1517 1203
50 7246 4477 3187 2466 1897 1504
60 8695 5372 3824 2959 2276 1805
70 6267 4461 3452 2656 2106
80 7163 5099 3945 3035 2407
90 8058 5736 4439 3414 2708
100 8953 6373 4932 3794 3008
110 7011 5425 4173 3309
120 7648 5918 4552 3610
130 8286 6411 4932 3911
140 8923 6905 5311 4212
150 7398 5691 4513
160 7891 6070 4813
170 8384 6449 5114
180 8877 6829 5415
190 7208 5716
200 7587 6017
210 7967 6318
220 8346 6619
230 8726 6919
240 7220
250 7521
260 7822
270 8123
280 8424
290 8724

Gear Change RPM drop (change @9000) RPM drop (change @9000)
-------------------------------------------------------------
1 -> 2 -3440 (to 5560) -3440 (to 5560)
2 -> 3 -2593 (to 6407) -2593 (to 6407)
3 -> 4 -2036 (to 6964) -2036 (to 6964)
4 -> 5 -2077 (to 6923) -2077 (to 6923)
5 -> 6 -1863 (to 7137) -1863 (to 7137)


OS + 4.375 Ratio

gear Km/h per 1000 RPM Km/h @9000 RPM Km/h @9000 RPM
--------------------------------------------------------
1 9.80 88 88
2 15.51 140 140
3 21.43 193 193
4 26.36 237 237
5 32.15 289 289

Km/h RPM (in Gears)
-------------------------------------------------
1 2 3 4 5
-------------------------------------------------
10 1021 645 467 379 311
20 2041 1290 933 759 622
30 3062 1935 1400 1138 933
40 4082 2580 1867 1517 1244
50 5103 3225 2333 1897 1555
60 6123 3870 2800 2276 1867
70 7144 4515 3266 2656 2178
80 8164 5159 3733 3035 2489
90 5804 4200 3414 2800
100 6449 4666 3794 3111
110 7094 5133 4173 3422
120 7739 5600 4552 3733
130 8384 6066 4932 4044
140 6533 5311 4355
150 6999 5691 4666
160 7466 6070 4977
170 7933 6449 5288
180 8399 6829 5600
190 8866 7208 5911
200 7587 6222
210 7967 6533
220 8346 6844
230 8726 7155
240 7466
250 7777
260 8088
270 8399
280 8710

Gear Change RPM drop (change @9000) RPM drop (change @9000)
-------------------------------------------------------------
1 -> 2 -3312 (to 5688) -3312 (to 5688)
2 -> 3 -2488 (to 6512) -2488 (to 6512)
3 -> 4 -1683 (to 7317) -1683 (to 7317)
4 -> 5 -1620 (to 7380) -1620 (to 7380)




6 Speed
Gear Km/h per 1000 RPM Km/h @9000 RPM Km/h @9000 RPM
--------------------------------------------------------
1 6.90 62 62
2 11.17 101 101
3 15.69 141 141
4 20.28 182 182
5 26.36 237 237
6 33.24 299 299

OS
gear Km/h per 1000 RPM Km/h @9000 RPM Km/h @9000 RPM
--------------------------------------------------------
1 9.80 88 88
2 15.51 140 140
3 21.43 193 193
4 26.36 237 237
5 32.15 289 289

[Terrh]

that's a lot of information. is there a PDF or link to it somewhere with better formatting?

[collector240sx]

Use this site you can supper impose 2 different setup one on top
the other.

http://www.teammfactory.com/gearcalculator.php

have fun.

[GT-R Glenn]

http://www.locost7.info/gearcalc.php

That one that compares is pretty good, not seen that before.

[Crazy 88]

I priced out a PAR gearset with a billet input, 4 gear straight cut, dog engagement, billet shift forks and a billet midplate. It was only $6500 Aus. which is only $5860 Can., add a G to have someone put all the parts in and you're still under $7k for a tranny that will hold 1000hp for a very long time.


Here is the PPG offering, it's about $2k more for some reason.


http://www.ppgearbox.com.au/page.asp?parentid=3&parent2id=15&parent3id=37&productid=56

And for shits and giggles I'll add that I'm funneling at least 600hp through my stock tranny and don't have any issues yet, 11.2 at 128mph so far and 3rd gear is still intact. The key is very precise and deleberate shifting without getting all flustered and just plowing it into gear when it doesn't want to go. I've missed 3rd about 6 times now, still kickin'.



Jon.

[GT-R Glenn]

I mate of mine has a ppg 5 speed dog box, its really noisey being straight cut.
They make a helical dog kit to, which would be better in a road car.
PAR dont have the same reputatiion as Pfitzner though, Im not saying they arn't any good, just that PPG do seem to be generally prefered more.

[Stefan_001]

PPG>PAR.

Heres a pic of the liberty clutchless shifter.
http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo26/Stefan_001/th_liberty2.jpg (http://s358.photobucket.com/albums/oo26/Stefan_001/?action=view&current=liberty2.jpg)

http://i358.photobucket.com/albums/oo26/Stefan_001/th_liberty1.jpg (http://s358.photobucket.com/albums/oo26/Stefan_001/?action=view&current=liberty1.jpg)

Theres another lever thats used for reverse but that broke off lol. btw this is a 6.80 nitrious mustang.

[Terrh]

that shift linkage doesn't look like downshifting would happen. at least not with one hand.

[mcfly]

we discussed that, the liberty is a one way gear box.

[Stefan_001]

liberty finally came out with the LSC5000 upgrade which is the LSC5100. Its a straight cut dogbox thats good for 1100 horsepower vs 850 horsepower. only problem is 1:1 is topgear and thats 5th. Not good for highway runs.

[Crazy 88]

PPG>PAR.



What, just because they cost more. I think it's been well documented with a wide variety of parts that the most expensive does not nesissarily mean it's the best. Again, if you truely need a part that is WAY more money and is the better product, sure, spend double if you NEED to. Even for me at my current power level (and up to 800hp) I don't think I need to spend $10k on a gear set (with all the extras).

I had a 1 hour conversation with the boys at PAR and got an on-line vitual tour of their man. facilities, they're not fartin' around.


They have a gearset in a full weight (3400 lb) 1000hp street car for over a year now and it's holding up. That's more than good enough for me. To each their own though......




Jon.

[mcfly]

The problem with PAR and PPG is they both rely on a few oem components in the case which have caused failures.

[Stefan_001]

What, just because they cost more. I think it's been well documented with a wide variety of parts that the most expensive does not nesissarily mean it's the best. Again, if you truely need a part that is WAY more money and is the better product, sure, spend double if you NEED to. Even for me at my current power level (and up to 800hp) I don't think I need to spend $10k on a gear set (with all the extras).

I had a 1 hour conversation with the boys at PAR and got an on-line vitual tour of their man. facilities, they're not fartin' around.


They have a gearset in a full weight (3400 lb) 1000hp street car for over a year now and it's holding up. That's more than good enough for me. To each their own though......




Jon.


I'm not going based on the price on quality but I remember that PAR had a few recalls on the Subaru and GTR gearsets. The gearset would get jammed.

[Terrh]

who's PAR and why haven't I heard of them?

I don't want to spend $10k on a trans. I don't even really want to spend $2k on a trans, lol.

[Crazy 88]

I'm not going based on the price but on quality, but I remember that PAR had a few recalls on the Subaru and GTR gearsets. The gearset would get jammed.

So did PPG, everybody does, I don't think there is an aftermarket part on the planet that hasn't had at least some teething problems.

I think that a billet mid plate and mainshaft along with a beefier input would all but wipe out all the factory short comings.




Jon.

[Terrh]

it still needs a stronger gearset. I haven't broke a syncro or anything yet but I keep ripping the teeth off of 3rd gear.