RB OIL PUMP Facts, Links & Quotes.

[Allan74]

In this thread, I am hoping to create a place that we can post FACTS and ONLY Facts about Oil Pump failures as well as certain triumphs on the $1,000+ Pumps......and anything else that can provide us with a centralized database of Oil Pump info both good and bad.

For the record, WHEN IT COMES TO N1 PUMPS AND FAILURES, Noone really cares at this point I believe, because I am sure we can all safely agree that they break the easiest due to materials used on the gears (sintered steel) and it's not hot news.....so we can safely leave them out of the failure list.

Let's focus on Tomei, Jun, HKS, Greddy, Nismo and Reimax/Reinik.

No HE SAID, SHE SAID...unless it can be backed up with references from the Internet. 1st hand info is always the best ofcourse.

Feel free to post whatever you wish, but post proof such as LINKS, QUOTES and USER INFO if/when needed. PICs are also a great idea, but are not required.

Anything goes EXCEPT for stuff that could hurt the overall thread, as this place is reserved for FACTS ONLY. Please don't take it personally if something you post is removed.

I will start off below and update the list with other FACTUAL INFO provided by others, when they are posted.

Please use my examples below for what information is required when posting a claim or an example
(unless it's YOU saying 'I BROKE blah blah...".

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FACTS, LINKS & QUOTES.....

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Originally Posted: March 28, 2005 by Tyndago
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http://www.skylinesdownunder.com/forums/showthread.php?t=40635&page=3
And then you have stuff like this happen. We were talking with Tetsuo Suzuki from Shift Japan - they build and prepare the Falken GT-R - Nurburgring car.

During a 12 hour test - 11 and a half hours into it - they had an engine blow up. Oil pump failure. I showed him some oil pumps we had - he said it had the Tomei - (made by Umeda) pump on it when it blew up. Great - even the newest - latest greatest part - and it lets go..

This is why we are going to dry sump on our World Challenge R34. Not really something for a street car. The more I look the more oil pump related engine deaths I see.



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Originally Posted: April 25, 2007 by Tyndago
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http://forums.freshalloy.com/showthread.php?t=167330&page=3
Nismo says don't turn their pump over 8400 rpms.I post up some logs of the Nismo turned over 10k over the course of a race. Not recommending it, but the ones we had survived. I have had two JUN pumps fail- break at the flats of the gears. Greddy never really gives me a warm fuzzy on their hard parts. I trust Nismo over Greddy.




--------------------------------
Manufacturer's Pump Ratings
--------------------------------
(Specs taken from Manufacturers & Resellers)

Stock: 47 L/min @ 6000 RPM
Nismo: Nismo claims comparable output to Stock but uses stronger gears.
HKS: 53 L/min @ 6000 RPM (Old Pump, Jun style)
HKS: ?? L/min @ 6000 RPM (New Pump, Tomei style)
Tomei: 57 L/min @ 6000 RPM
JUN: 59 L/min @ 6000 RPM (Calculated using Jun's Claim of +25% of OEM)
Trust: 59 L/min @ 6000 RPM
Reimax: 70 L/min @ 6000 RPM



------------------------------
Tomei RB Oil Pump
------------------------------
According to the Tomei Japan Website:
http://www.tomei-p.co.jp/inf/pdf_en.php
...the latest revision/model Tomei RB Oil Pump was released December 2006, as shown in their 'Release Date' list on that page.

To Date (December 2006 to December 2009) there have been NO reported Tomei RB Oil Pump Failures that the public has been made aware of and nothing can be found on the Internet.

As there was a report of 1 failure in 2003, the pump in question may have been an Engineering sample or Early revision.
This is of course is pure speculation based on nothing but the Timeline and Release date shown today by Tomei.

Tomei also claim NO FAILURES TO DATE in the following page/PDF file:
http://www.tomei-p.co.jp/inf/pdf/22_ae_Letter.pdf

[mcfly]

no pictures no break, tyndagos post is worthless and therefore not fact.

[mcfly]

Dead Greddy pump
http://www.gtr.co.uk/forum/103878-greddy-oil-pump-dead.html

[mcfly]

so what really breaks an oil pump? - FreshAlloy.com Forums
good thread on "what really breaks an oil pump"

Kismetcapitans jun pump may have broke but he did install his balancer/remove with a sledge hammer and is believed to be the main point that caused the crack.
- Having detected a microcrack in my JUN pump gear, on the edge of the drive flat (pump still pushes 7~8bar pressure...but for how much longer??), I'm thinking that the precision by which the engine was assembled becomes a big factor, as well as perhaps the grade of oil being used. If the crank mains journals are not dead consistent, I think slight crankshaft wobble can come into play. Something that wouldn't cause a problem in a 6000rpm engine, but something that can slowly cause problems with the oil pump gear.
picture of the later results of kismets pump, his oil pump housing was actually cracked.

edthemanjp posted
Kismet by looking at the above picture I see external damage to the oil pump itself. The timing belt drive sprocket backing plate is up against the seal and I don't perceive how the smooth brass plate can cause the damage depicted in that picture. If that was a new pump it got sorely abused fast and it looks as though something was grinding against it.


that is true, I'm not 100% certain about what killed my pump, I did lose a damper, so a damper wobbling violently could have been a contributing cause. But with my engine apart, we also found excessive thrust clearance on the crankshaft.

[Skym]

Nico forum has the same snapped inner part of gears that touches the oil pump drive on front of crank -

http://forums.nicoclub.com/zerothread/185427

Due to using factory oilpump drive.

I guess this is not oil pump failure related facts, quotes, links etc, but Nitto oil pump is another to add to the list of available oil pumps -

http://www.modyourcar.com.au/nitto-rb-series-high-volume-oil-pump--nissan-rb20--rb25--rb26--rb30-p8489

Nitto oilpump -

http://nitto.com.au/products/oilpump-RB.html?category=engineblock

Possible solution to oil pump failure problem, as gears are made of Billet Steel, so should be stronger. Also pressure relief value can be adjustable via changing springs and has a oil pump drive collar that looks like it's designed to be used with that oil pump.

Seems to move more oil than a JUN oil pump -

http://www.junauto.co.jp/products/cylinderblock-part/oilpump/index.html?en

[Allan74]

no pictures no break, tyndagos post is worthless and therefore not fact.

Since when did he stop being a God to you ?


Also....Skym - Nice last post. Good info ;) Now we are on track.

In regards to the Nitto Pump Skym.....I simply can't jump onboard. CRD are a Jun reseller/over seas Partner.... and use Jun 'jobber' housings with possibly 'custom gears' IF NOT just using Jun's gears as well - We will never know.

Look at Nitto products - then look at Jun's....and I mean EVERYTHING. Cranks, Stroker Kits, Oil Pumps, Rods etc. It's all JUN.

The Nitto pump is not a REAL WORLD Pump, as it was produced to be price competitive in Australia ONLY. For one of us here to buy that Pump, would nearly equal a Tomei and I would rather just buy Tomei as it actually HAS extensive R&D and uses a newer style housing that is miles ahead of the OEM style that everyone else uses.

The Tomei is $2200 AUD in Aus & NZ regions. The Nitto is $1350 AUD...and is only priced such as it is to stay competitive with Jun pricing.
In Canada, We can get the Tomei for $1500 CAD.

Nitto also say this pump is designed/extensive R&D ?....GIMME A BREAK. Jun housing, backplate with their name on it and POSSIBLY Custom gears - NO REAL DEVELOPMENT.

Someone who did recently release a new pump was HKS. Oddly enough, they gave up on using the 20+yr old housing design that Nitto uses and went with a 'Tomei Style' housing and external relief adjustment capabilities.

Nitto is a joke, but there is no real proof either way.

[mcfly]

about four years ago

[Kras]

Stock: 47 L/min @ 6000 RPM
Nismo: Nismo claims comparable output to Stock but uses stronger gears.
HKS: 53 L/min @ 6000 RPM (Old Pump, Jun style)
HKS: ?? L/min @ 6000 RPM (New Pump, Tomei style)
Tomei: 57 L/min @ 6000 RPM
JUN: 59 L/min @ 6000 RPM (Calculated using Jun's Claim of +25% of OEM)
Trust: 59 L/min @ 6000 RPM
Reimax: 70 L/min @ 6000 RPM


I find it interesting how much oil the Reimax pump moves, this seems almost excessive doesn't it? Anyone got more info on this oil pump (price, quality # of failures etc.)?

[Allan74]

http://www.reimax.co.jp/index.html

http://www.reimax.co.jp/pages/products/lower-area/index.html

http://www.rhdjapan.com/jdm-low/Reimax-High-Flow-Oil-Pump-RB26DETT-61029

Reimax (was Reinik) and Nissan have alot of history together......Group A ;)

That's a start anyways, you will have to do some homework yourself on Google to track down more info.
Allan

[mcfly]

The pump housing on the Reimax looks like it is designed to flow more. the stock housing Is likely the major limiting factor with most a/m pumps.
You dont need even 50 l/min. 70 is a lot of potential blow by.

then again look at the group a sumps. they were huge.

[Kras]

Hmm interesting, I thought it was cheaper than that but I guess I was thinking of just the gears and not the pump housing.

[Allan74]

Here is an RB30 Oil Pump pic I got from Skylines Aus way back in the day.......

http://www.gtrpwrgtrpwrgtrpwrgtrpwrgtrpwrgtrpwrgtrpwr.com/downloads/pics/rb30oilpump.jpg

Notice is uses a Sawtooth design as opposed to Gerotor ?

From an engineering standpoint, the Sawtooth design is less susceptible to damage caused by vibration (and does a good job 'bleeding off vibration), stronger overall......but is less efficient in terms of volume (or 'pumping') capabilities. It's funny Nissan didn't use this design more and perhaps add a THICKER gear to compensate for lack of pumping efficiency. Also, notice the separator/guide/channel in between the gears at the bottom for added stability during rotation perhaps ?

Too bad you couldn't have the best of both worlds ? The stability of a Tooth Design and the efficiency of a Gerotor......
Well, You can.
It's called the 3pc Tomei Gear Set that is found in their Oil Pumps for RBs ;)
The primary gear that rides the crank transmitts movement using teeth to the secondary Gerotor that pumps the oil.
It bleeds off vibrations, then pumps efficiently. What more can you ask for ? (other than a cheaper price...lol).

http://www.gtrpwrgtrpwrgtrpwrgtrpwrgtrpwrgtrpwrgtrpwr.com/downloads/pics/tomeigears.jpg

Someone who actually knows about this stuff can add more.
Allan

[CRD]

Hi Guys
Stumbled across this forum and found this thread.
After reading some of the comments I felt it was time to set the record straight.
Hope i can shed some light on a subject that Allan 74 appears to be little unsure of.
Since this thread stipulates, STATE FACTS and not misconceptions/assumptions.
I was originally going to go into detail about CRD Nitto performance Engineering and JUN association etc but decided to go straight to the point.

CRD does NOT and has NOT had any association whatsoever with JUN for over well over 3 years. Nitto Performance Engineering has NEVER had any association with JUN or are they selling JUN or for that matter anybody else's jobber parts as stated on this forum thread. Along with the help of CRD they have designed a range of their own products that is ever increasing. Take a good look at the new NITTO website (not a plug. just facts) www.nitto.com.au.
As for the Nitto RB series Oil Pump there should be enough info on NITTO's web site to answer most of your questions .If not, I’m sure the guys there will be happy to answer any questions for the more technically minded. As for the rest of the population who want a product that HAS been thoroughly tested for close to 3 years before its release ( you can’t offer a unique oil pump gear material and not develop and test, material type, manufacturing and hardening processes, gear profile etc) , offering a unique billet gear design that will happily rev to over 10000 rpm and can be abused with anti lag or the super aggressive two step / launch control found on many of today’s top drag racing engines, then this is the pump to look for .Already used by many workshops around Australia for both street and race applications.

Oh and by the way, the Nitto billet backing plate is not just for looks. It actually does work, but we’ll leave that for another time.
These are THE FACTS.

Jim Souvas

CRD
technical engineer

[Allan74]

FINALLY....someone from CRD stops by a forum and talks about Nitto. You have no idea how long I have been waiting for this.

Price your pump for the 'World Market' and make it easilly available to people overseas and let us put this thing to the test.

As it stands, for me to buy one of these pumps, I would essentially pay the same amount that I would for a Tomei pump......and given the choice, I am sure you know where most (if not all) people would spend their money if the choice was a simple 1:1 based on dollars.

[Allan74]

So is that it then ?

2 people from CRD/Nitto sign up on the forum just to lurke ? Nice.

How about getting on here and talking about YOUR product a little bit ?

Let's see a little more than copy/paste from the brochure, because most of us have already read that and would prefer the 'word' straight from the horses mouth - so to speak.

Let's see some examples, some more info on testing and how the final 'rating' was given to this pump and what makes it so 'good'.....

So, How about it then ?

[mcfly]

Why not just recommend the Tomei pump to everyone over the Nitto. It has a trck record established and costs the same as mentioned above.

I like you idea, there needs to be some sort of justification to choose the underdog over the pitbull.

[Allan74]

Just a quick comparison.....(using Tweakit.net pricing)


Nissan N1 Oil Pump - $700 AUD + Shipping ($640 USD +) ...We pay $300 USD SHIPPED.

Tomei RB Oil Pump - $2820 AUD + Shipping ($2575 USD +) ..We pay $1500 USD SHIPPED.

Nitto RB Oil Pump - $1270 AUD + Shipping ($1160 USD +)

[SuperHatch]

In an effort to avoid startind a new thread, it looks like I've got my hands on a good condition R32 RB26 engine. A good friend of mine has the motor in his 240SX, and he is looking to switch to a VH setup. Last weekend the engine suffered a loss in oil pressure (never went to zero, and if run today is still 20psi at idle and 40-45psi above idle). The motor needs a new oil pump, and providing that the crank and rod bearings all inspect well (no damage) I will be picking up the motor.

That being said, it is an R32 motor with the short drive. I am planning on buying a Nismo pump (NOT and N1 pump) and a crank collar. Which do you suggest? Jun? Others?

I do not want to spend the extra money on a Tomei pump, and I don't ever plan on reving the motor past 8000RPM. The engine itself is not getting built, and I only plan on running amild setup with some N1 turbos, looking for 400-450HP. With that all in mind, do you think this is a good plan? Is the Nismo pump a good "middle of the road" pump between an N1 pump and the Tomei pump? (it is priced in the middle)

[mcfly]

Item:Oil Pump Snout/Collar
Age:New, machined on CNC machine by me.
Condition:
Price:$100 each OR $80.00 each for orders of 3 or more.
To Fit: (What car)RB Engines
Location:SE Melbourne
Contact:PM
Comments:

Snouts are machined from 4140 high tensile steel.

However please note that the crank needs to be machined to fit this item as with other after market oil pump snouts. Will include fitting directions with product.

If any doubt on quality you can visit my other item (RB Head Oil Drain Fitting) as per quality of products that i make.

PTD or tufrx3

http://www.skylinesaustralia.com/forums/Oil-Pump-Snout-collar-Rb-t214122.html

[Allan74]

That being said, it is an R32 motor with the short drive. I am planning on buying a Nismo pump (NOT and N1 pump) and a crank collar. Which do you suggest? Jun? Others?

I do not want to spend the extra money on a Tomei pump, and I don't ever plan on reving the motor past 8000RPM. The engine itself is not getting built, and I only plan on running amild setup with some N1 turbos, looking for 400-450HP. With that all in mind, do you think this is a good plan? Is the Nismo pump a good "middle of the road" pump between an N1 pump and the Tomei pump? (it is priced in the middle)

Pull the stock pump off the car, measure the outer gear. It will be either 77mm or 81mm,.....then spend $500 and just order the Reimax Gear set from RHD Japan. Clean it, reinstall new gears...DONE.
http://www.rhdjapan.com/reimax-oil-pump-gear-kit-skyline-gt-r-rb26dett-54021

The end result is the NISMO Pump, without spending $1,000 to get it, as that's all a Nismo pump is.

[rb-racer]

there are two gear sizes in oem pumps?

[SuperHatch]

Pull the stock pump off the car, measure the outer gear. It will be either 77mm or 81mm,.....then spend $500 and just order the Reimax Gear set from RHD Japan. Clean it, reinstall new gears...DONE.
http://www.rhdjapan.com/reimax-oil-pump-gear-kit-skyline-gt-r-rb26dett-54021

The end result is the NISMO Pump, without spending $1,000 to get it, as that's all a Nismo pump is.

That link says that I need to send them my pump to have the gears installed. Is that true, or can I just do it myself?

[Allan74]

Threre are 2 kits. 1 SEND AWAY where they machine your housing for 12mm gears. 1 YOU INSTALL where they just send you 11mm gears to install yourself.

12mm send in.... - $666
http://www.rhdjapan.com/reimax-reinforced-and-capacity-up-oil-pump-gear-kit-skyline-gt-r-rb26dett-59391

11mm, you install - $544
http://www.rhdjapan.com/reimax-oil-pump-gear-kit-skyline-gt-r-rb26dett-54021